We’ve discussed fan fiction here in the comments before, and I have to be honest that I have mixed feelings about it. Oh, I understand the compulsion to write fan fiction, even to share it with communities of like-minded individuals. I think we all come to the altar of creativity having been led by the hands of the works that inspired us and touched us (sometimes in naughty places, as E.L. James might tell you). Some authors welcome fan fiction; they love that people are so pumped about reading their books that they want to spend more time with the characters. Others feel uneasy, or outright prohibit fan fiction (at least, prohibit it from being shared); while I think taking a hard line on fan fiction might come across as a bit dickish, I can wholly empathize with the authors. I think it would kind of be like hearing a woman ask your kids to call her “Mommy” and then play pretend family. I can imagine the frustration of having strangers take the characters that one has worked so hard to create and use them, for good or ill.
Still, I really have no qualms about the fan fiction universe–or at least, I didn’t. Maybe I don’t personally groove on it, but I tend to have a live-and-let-live attitude about a lot of things that I don’t personally dig. Sports, for example–sure, some aspects of sports tick me off, like having the entire city I live in freaking out during football season, or having my favorite shows put on hiatus to air the Olympics, but by and large, I don’t get my knickers in a twist about it. Fan fiction has been the same, until sj linked me this Kickstarter and I really started to ponder it.
The Kickstarter project, started by a gent named Adam VillaSenor and a group of Harry Potter fans, is a webseries called Sirius Black and the Secret Keeper. It’s a prequel to the Harry Potter series, set during the first war, focusing on Sirius as the main character. Sirius happens to be my personal favorite character in the HP universe; I howled when he died, so I completely understand and approve of the desire to expand on his backstory. I wouldn’t probably watch it, since I don’t do fan fiction, but I think it’s a neat idea and that a lot of people would probably enjoy it.
The thorn in my side about this is the Kickstarter.
VillaSenor set the original Kickstarter goal at $10,000, but in the text, the real goal is revealed to be $105,000. (The project failed funding, so they won’t be receiving any money at all.) They do claim in the notes that they will not be receiving a profit from this, but they don’t outline what the money will go toward specifically. If any of that KS money had gone to buy equipment that they kept afterward, like cameras or computer programs or even computer equipment, well, couldn’t one consider that having profited off of the series in assets gained? Would the actors be paid, and would that be considered profit made from the series? Could the rewards, some of which were tangible items based off of the Harry Potter universe, be considered to be “sold” and the money made from them profit? I tend to think of Kickstarter projects as being pre-sales a lot of the time, and I’m not sure that one could argue that the “rewards” are really different than selling items/services for a profit–the profit being the money left for the project after the last of the rewards has been shipped off. Troublesome. Either of those figures is quite a bit of scratch to be changing hands to produce a fan fiction web series, especially one that doesn’t even officially license the characters.
The case of E.L. James is a successful example of profitable fan fiction. The word around the blogosphere is that they didn’t change anything but the names and other Twilight-specific information when they published Fifty Shades; the concepts and characters were still directly ripped off of Twilight, tweaked just enough not to be sued, I suppose. Is this okay, to be profitable–and so wildly profitable–when the entire work is nakedly derivative of another person’s creative work? How many degrees of separation should one have from an original “inspiration” when publishing fan fiction?
I don’t like this, truly. It makes me uneasy, for several reasons. One, I see both of these projects as potentially being theft. I’m all for fans expressing themselves, but when money starts to change hands based on that expression, I think that steps have to be taken either to license the characters officially or make the work a unique creative work. The second thing that perturbs me is that E.L. James’s project was legitimized by being picked up by an actual publisher, despite the shady premise under which it came into being. I haven’t read the books and I may have this part wrong, but I’ve read in several places that “Edward” becoming “Christian” was a simple matter of search and replace; I, frankly, expect better of the publishing industry–especially as it’s the same industry taking measures to try to prevent piracy, including supporting highly questionable bills like SOPA and PIPA, not to mention making buying ebooks a pain in the ass because they insist on proprietary formats and DRM. Yet, when it comes to publishers making money? Sure, we can rip off Twilight; it’s hugely popular and we should take advantage. Fail.
Mind you, I think Twilight is garbage, but Meyer is still allowed proprietary rights over her own creation, even if I’d almost rather stab my eyeballs out than read it.
I think this is one reason I have become a proud supporter of small press books. I see publishers becoming more about trend and less about creativity; that’s their right, of course–they can run their businesses however they choose. I, on the other hand, choose to support presses that look for originality and quality above making a quick profit off of blatant derivation.
I’m still torn over the issue of fan fiction. As a fan, I don’t want to read it, even if the author officially sanctions it. Stephen King allowed a Dark Tower comic/graphic novel to be produced; I read the first two issues, but it didn’t seem right to me. King birthed the universe of the series in his head, and for me, he’s the gatekeeper of that world. Reading the auxiliary materials, I felt like I was watching a kid put on daddy’s tie and play dress-up, wearing shoes that were too big, their hands swallowed by shirt sleeves a tad too long. Unsanctioned fiction appeals even less to me in most cases; still, I don’t quite begrudge it . . . until money gets involved, and then, I’m peeved.
What do you guys think about fan fiction? Am I being too hard on it? Too easy? Do you read (or write) it? Talk to me in the comments!

Heh, you published this just as I was about to reply to your Trashy Tuesday comment saying “Never has the urge to write fanfic been so strong as it is right now.”
But for realsies: There’s a huge difference between shared universes (most famously, the Star Wars Universe, but smaller shared universes, too – like the Bordertown books created by Terri Windling) where everyone is welcome to create their own characters and expand on those already existing, and pulling your Twilight/HP/Babylon 5 fanfic for publication.
I have a difficult time with the latter. This probably won’t surprise you, but for a while (I’m gonna say between OotP and DH) I was mega into reading Harry Potter fanfic. Mostly because I ADORED the characters, and there were some out there that were INCREDIBLY well written. These were stories that probably wouldn’t have had any problems being published on their own, BUT when you put something out there that’s based on another author’s creation, at no point in time should you profit from it.
Pre-50 Shades of Suck, the “author” I had the biggest problem with was Cassie Claire (now Cassandra Clare) who pulled her Draco Trilogy to have it published as The Mortal Instruments series. Her characters are QUITE OBVIOUSLY Rowling’s characters, just with their names changed. There are entire sections of her published work lifted directly from her fanfic (which she was also caught plagiarizing, but that’s neither here nor there), so…shouldn’t Jo being seeing some money from this?
I see fanfic as kind of operating under a Creative Commons license (for those authors that don’t have a problem with it). It’s fine to put it out there, and to use it to hone your skills, but once you attempt to get paid for it – that’s when I get pissed.
So, yeah – this whole kickstarter for the Sirius Black prequel. Um…no. Seriously, hell no. I don’t understand why Bloomsbury/Scholastic/Warner Brothers aren’t ALL OVER this crap.
…and at this point I’m just rambling incoherently, so I’ll shut up now!
bahaha re: BSC fanfic.
I’m just glad the Kickstarter didn’t get funded. I mean, if they want to make it on their own money, fine.. but asking other people to pay for it is dangerously edging into no-bueno territory.
Wait, those terrible Mortal Instruments books were HP fanfic? Ugh, I read the first two and I was like WHY AM I DOING THIS TO MYSELF and refused to read any more. I feel my life is richer for it.
Who was everyone supposed to be? I really was going ICK ICK ICK throughout so I didn’t even notice. Was one of those annoying people supposed to be Draco? Makes sense, since I hated them ALL. Well, except Simon. Who was just sad.
Jace=Draco
Clary=Ginny
Valentine=Voldemort
Simon=Harry
and so on…
Ugh, I hate them MORE now. If that’s even possible.
This is why I don’t have a problem with “character stealing”. Take a different author’s impressions of a group of characters, put them in a new setting with new obstacles, and change the names, and chances are that only die-hard fans of the original will notice the parallels.
I read the first fifty pages or so of Fifty Shades, and even knowing that the two were supposed to be Edward and Bella, I honestly didn’t see it. E L James could have totally gotten away with it, had she not made the original version public.
I’m not saying it’s a respectable artistic decision, but I don’t think there’s much harm in it.
That’s kind of the rub with James, though … without having made it public as Twilight fanfic, she wouldn’t have the book deals or the fat cash. It only got attention because it started out as fanfic. So even if the characters were (even more?) poorly-drawn, she’s still coat-tailin’ in a significant way, using Twilight as a springboard.
Right well… I have read and written fan fiction, though not recently unless you count fiction about my own MMO characters set in someone else’s world. (I don’t. It’s kind of like writing for a collaborative fiction setting.) I remember reading Babylon 5 fan fics back in the day, though the were usually the parody ones (there was a killer where Star Trek:TNG’s Enterprise got dropped through B5′s gate). I wrote and read Buffy fan fics, though mostly the parodies (sense a pattern?). I did a Red Dwarf/Buffy crossover, someone else was doing Buffy and the Holy Grail. It was funny, and fun.
But Shades makes me cringe, for a number of reasons. For starters it seems like ebook readers only ever read soft porn. Then there’s the idea that someone actually picked up this and published it. It’s envy, but I prefer to think of it as recognition of injustice! And, yes, it does come across as making (a lot) of money off the back of someone else’s work.
The question, of course, is whether the books would have been as popular if they were actually not Twilight fan fiction? It seems likely that the major readers of Shades were not Twilight fans, so perhaps, rather like Harry Potter, Shades was an idea whose time had come. There was nothing new about the Potter books when they came out, they just hit the right note at the right time. People have been writing bad BDSM romances for years (just look at Literotica.com), but suddenly kinky sex is fashionable.
Whatever the case, I’m going to go sulk about having to self-publish.
“For starters it seems like ebook readers only ever read soft porn.” Niall, do I need to rap you on the nose and remind you that I am practically married to my Kindle? :D
No. :p
Just think, though. If you’re out reading in public, anyone who looks at the top buys lists on Amazon is going to think you’re reading about kinky bondage sex.
And all those people who read about kinky bondage sex on their Kindles because they think people won’t know they are HAVE FAILED! Muhahaha!
Hate to burst your bubble, Niall, but…I’m a girl, therefore when I’m reading, people already assume I’m reading about kinky bondage sex. (Or mushy romance.)
I can’t even tell you how many comments and “jokes” I used to get at work about that. People would assume I was reading big books just so I looked smart. Even if the cover clearly said something like “Sherlock Holmes” or “Agatha Christie”, they’d still ask me if it was some kind of Harlequin romance novel.
Now I have a Kindle and they can’t see the cover, which means I get twice as many assumptions and faux-questions about what I’m reading. I guarantee pretty much everyone who asks will, in the back of their head, already assume that I’m reading something have to do with sex.
And, honestly, so what if I am? OK, so 50 Shades of Grey is poorly written and kind of annoying. (Of course it is–it was based off the Twilight series.) Big whoop. Let’s recognize it for the poor attempt that it is and move on, being thankful that now it’s a little easier to utter the phrase “erotica” without immediately being labeled as a slut, pervert, or deviant.
Oh, and going back to your original flippancy regarding eBook users…according to my Kindle, I have finished 28 eBooks so far. Among these I have high fantasy, (I dare you to call Patrick Rothfuss a purveyor of soft porn) science fiction, literary/autobiographical stuff, historical romance, horror, several mysteries, steampunk, and of course the entire collected works of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
That doesn’t even begin to cover the wide range of genres and sub-genres that are on my “To Read” list…which currently numbers over 100.
Problem?
People would assume I was reading big books just so I looked smart.
That’s really sad. It’s those people who lack intelligence, not you.
Also: Sherlock high-five! One of my current personal projects is to read all of the Conan Doyle stories; right now I’m in the middle of Baskerville and the Return of Sherlock Holmes set.
I got no problem. (I thought the evil laugh, which I hope I spelled right now it’s a real word, was a give away.)
It is fascinating how this book has made BDSM almost mainstream (sort of). Shades and similar books are right at the front of the bookstores here, and Anne Summers has moved its bondage gear to the front of the shop. (My apologies if you have no idea what Anne Summers is; think high-street sex shop.) People who would never have considered it are out there buying paddles and furry handcuffs.
Kind of off the point though. It’s a shame that this revolution in sexual politics did not come from something more original and with better writing. Hell, there are probably better Twilight fan fics out there, but there’s certainly better erotica.
Maybe the next generation of Kindles should have a vibrate feature? For, uh, notifications . . .
But seriously, I don’t really think that it matters what people are reading on their kindles, and I make no assumptions. Less discriminating readers have been reading Harlequin romances for decades because they provides a kind of escape that the readers crave. Fifty Shades, shit though it is, fulfills that same escape need, and most of the people who are reading it are the same ones who read trashy romance. It’s not about quality; it’s about imagination.
I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to assume that everyone with a Kindle is reading soft porn, though. As much as I have to travel for work, I read on my Kindle pretty exclusively now. My books are mostly speculative fiction or non-fiction. Granted, sharing a library with my wife, I have to delete a lot of paranormal romance books whenever I sync my own Kindle. Now that I think about it, I may have just proven your point–then again, my wife is one of those trashy romance readers.
For me, a Kindle is a bit too dear to buy just to read trashy books, bahaha. After all, you can find loads of free porn online :D
I’m uncomfortable with profit being made off of fan fiction. It feels like stealing someone’s intellectual property. If we were to pull that kind of thing in school, we’d get a big, fat F, not a multi-million dollar contract.
I’m uncomfortable with the idea of it, too, but I can also agree with those who argue for it. Yes, it may be based on someone else’s world, but the author still puts the work in. They still sit down in the chair and make the effort to write and create something. While I would much prefer that they create something from scratch, some people just work better if all the background stuff is done for them ahead of time. Some people aren’t interested in world building, or making up their own language, or drawing maps. Sometimes they just want to forge ahead and write about characters, or a specific event in another storyline that was perhaps neglected by the Original Author.
I will always prefer original works, but I also try not to instantly vilify people who make money off of fanfiction, (Not saying you did, I’m just trying to share my point of view on the situation) even if it’s the trendy thing to do.
I’m fine with that as long as it’s officially sanctioned if they’re going to make money off of it.. I used to devour Star Trek novels (ahem) so good work CAN come out of fanfic, I just hate it when people make loads of cash off of something without permission. Or try to.
I think that’s the key there – without permission. The Star Trek, Star Wars, Buffy, etc. books were all sanctioned tie-ins. These people are trying to make money off of someone else’s intellectual property, without permission.
Ah, I missed the part where they weren’t getting permission for these works. If that’s the case, then I ABSOLUTELY agree that that’s no-bueno. Also thank you for bringing up Star Trek novels, that is exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of. :) I used to love those, and a few of them are still old favorites. (Especially the one Diane Duane wrote, because she is awesome.) Anything from the Forgotten Realms universe is also a great example. It’s slightly different since there are only a few regular FR characters to work with, so it’s more of a world-fanfic, but still. Lots and lots of popular books and authors who had careers made by their usage of someone else’s world.
Diane Duane was my favorite!
Ugh… just no. I’ll admit to reading fanfic – both Buffy (back in the day) and HP, in fact. Although I have decided that I should probably just read real books – less frustration with wading through poorly, written crapola to find the gems. However, no one should be making any money from it.
I don’t necessarily have any problems with E.L. James making a gazillion dollars from writing bad porn (although it does irk me that it makes a ton of money while better authors with better stories to tell go unpublished or don’t sell many books – kind of like it irks me that Britney Spears makes a gazillion dollars and Sharon Jones and Dap Kings don’t). However, it does tick me off that she basically stole the characters and just added bad BDSM to it. I don’t like Twilight and find them to be poorly written as well, but the world does belong to Stephanie Meyers and not to E.L. James.
I can only hope that there is some kind of licensing fee being paid or that Meyers is going to sue the crap out of her and take all her ill-gotten gains.
+1,000,000,000 for the Sharon Jones reference
I don’t like the idea. When I think of some other author writing someone else’s story I feel like saying, “that never happened!” like somehow the new author’s fiction is more “fictional”.
JIM! You’re here! Commenting! (gasp)
I agree. I think I was just saying the same thing to someone the other night. I can’t remember how I put it, though. You probably said it better.
I’m not totally opposed to the idea of fan fiction. I’m in the school of imitation as the highest form of flattery. If I wrote something and it made people feel strongly enough that they wanted to relive it by writing their own stories, I think I would be rather pleased.
However, as you say, when it comes to making money off of it, I’m not sure how I would feel. As long as my work was considered critically superior and made more money, I don’t think I would mind.
Still, I know Kurt Vonnegut was pretty pissed when someone wrote a book under the pseudonym Kilgore Trout, so I guess not every author feels the same way I do.
I don’t *think* I’ve ever read any fanfic (if I have, it was when I was a kid and I had no idea that’s what it was). I’m actually really uncomfortable with it, and I don’t like that people can make tons of money from someone else’s ideas. It just doesn’t feel right.
As for Neal’s comment, I guess I’ve been using my ereader ALL WRONG. I had no idea it was a portal for porn. Shit.
Right? I’m surprised that they don’t come bundled with vibrators on Amazon to save people time. “94% of people who bought Kindles also bought The Jackrabbit 9000*!”
*fictional name of sex toy. I don’t own a Jackrabbit 9000.
“You’re sitting on a goldmine, Trebek!”
Presumably, since “rabbits” are a class of vibrator, the Jackrabbit 9000 is a fan fic rabbit. I agree with Tony here; potential marketing goldmine.
For the record, I’m only going by the top selling list on Amazon (that’s Amazon UK, US could be different) where 50 Shades had the top 4 slots for months (three volumes and the collection of all three) and they were pushed off the top by another, similar book. I’m pleased to note that 5 out of 10 in the list are currently not erotica, but that means 50% are! And don’t get my started on the Kobo bookstore’s recommendations!
Also, I bought my Kindle to read The Hollows series. It’s got a bit of sex in it, but it’s urban fantasy, not erotica.
Jackrabbit 9000. Oh my!
First, I have to say that your posts and follow up comments consistently make me laugh like an insane person.
I’ve never read fanfic. I don’t have a problem with people writing it to their heart’s content but I have no interest in reading it. That’s because I have some sort of loyalty to the original author. (Same with some music. Don’t cover a Beatles song please.)
Along the same lines, it makes my soul hurt to hear about classics being sexed up with erotic scenes. I’m talking about upcoming rewrites of Jane Eyre, etc., NOT Twilight. That’s just so freaking wrong.
I find having things not explictly written out like a porno more satisfying in a way. Not knowing what happened when two sexually involved characters were doing the horizontal tango helps to… Titillate the mind (is that word appropriate?). I mean, everyone has different kinks right? So if their favourite couple did the deed in a position they hate, it could ruin it for them. Pride and Prejudice never described any sexual acts between Elizabeth and Darcy, but it doesn’t diminish the romance at all.
I get the whole “imitation is the sincerest form of flattery” thing, and that there are no completely original ideas, and that everyone gets their inspiration from somewhere. I think the biggest distinction for me is that these works were established as fan fiction, and the authors in question (like Amy, I never knew about the Mortal Instruments/HP connection) pulled them down and reworked them into their “own” stories AFTER they became popular.
To be honest, I probably wouldn’t have a problem with something that started as a fanfic being reworked and then published, if it was all done privately. You know, something that started out as a “just for fun” writing exercise that sort of snowballed. I guess you could argue that that’s even “sneakier” and at least James/Clare have acknowledged where their ideas came from. But at least in my scenario, the initiative comes from the author who falls in love with the story and decides to do something more with it, as opposed to getting X amount of hits on a website and thinking, “Hmm, why aren’t I getting paid for this?”
Oooh, the fanfiction controversy! You’re a brave blogger to touch that hornet’s nest ;)
Personally, like tonbird, I think of fanfic as a form of flattery. I do understand why some authors might feel uneasy about other people taking ownership — even without profit — of their characters and worlds.
But honestly, I see no legal or ethical problem with not-for-profit fanfiction that clearly presents itself as fanfiction. It’s a way of continuing to live in that world after you’ve closed the book or turned off the TV. Sure, I suppose authors have the right to tell their audiences how to experience the story (thou shalt not publicly, in narrative form, ship characters that I did not canonically ship, and thou shalt not publicly, in narrative form, speculate about what happens after The End), but trying to legally enforce that does seem a bit arrogant.
Better, IMO, for the author to just ignore fanfic than to waste time and energy attacking it. Unless, of course, if the fan is trying to profit or pass off the work as his/her own idea. Then the author can kick that fan’s butt.
Two distinctions need to be made here.
The first is between “legal” and “ethical.” Fan fiction is, for the most part, illegal, from what I understand. But I don’t see it as unethical.
Fifty Shades, on the other hand, is probably perfectly legal. Once the author removed the overt Twilight tie-ins, she was good to go. Ethically, it’s a questionable move. But because she didn’t use the characters directly, wrote her own plot, changed the setting, and removed the mystical elements, it became its own work. Ethics-wise, I can see how someone would have a problem with it.
The second distinction to be made is between the work itself and how the work is advertised. Fifty Shades started out as fanfic. Since the author only severed the ties with Twilight after using the link between them to garner a lot of publicity for her project. I honestly don’t know if there’s a legal case in there. But ethically, it goes way beyond the usual bandwagon jumping of “I’m writing a vampire book cuz’ they’re hot right now,” or “If you liked Twilight, you’ll love Creepy Stalker Vampire Romance, Volume III.”
Legally, you can be incredibly derivative. But you can’t be so explicit about being a knockoff. Ethically? I don’t have a good answer. I think it’s possible to extend an author’s world in a way that respects the original while adding value to it, and the laws against doing so could be made more lenient without any ill effect. But I also feel that you should do as much of your own creative work as possible, rather than rehashing things that would have been better left alone. Lookin’ at you, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. There were some clever bits, but it ended up stomping all over some of the best lines and mucking up some of the characters.
“you’ll love Creepy Stalker Vampire Romance, Volume III.”
I love this – times a billion. My 8th grade girls and I had a long discussion about Twilight when it first became popular about the fact that being a creep, controlling stalker is not romantic and does not make for a good boyfriend. Alas, I think that I only converted a few of them. I don’t know if I would have thought that it was romantic at their age or not – I’d hope not.
I’m a teenager and I am horrified at the thought of a boyfriend like Edward if that helps you sleep at night!
Be careful to close your windows though, or you might have random creeptastic fantasy creatures climb in just to watch you sleep…
Cynthia W, you pretty much said what I was going to say (just hate it when people do that!) There needs to be a lawsuit, and a big one. It worries me that Meyers’ publisher (Little, Brown, which belongs to Hachette) isn’t even making noises in the direction of FSOG, because there are some pretty important principles involved here. And Random House needs to take some responsibility for legitimizing (= making money from) blatant fanfic. I find it very worrying that it’s the big league players who are taking the lead in encouraging plagiarism.
Maybe after the whole Mortal Instruments/Cassie Claire thing, they just gave up. After all, if JK couldn’t go after someone and make it stick, why bother?
Although, I can’t remember if she even had anything to say about it or not. Which seems weird after the HP Lexicon debacle and her known opposition to NC-17 and R Rated fanfic.
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I personally adore fanfiction, as long as it stays as fanfiction. I don’t understand why some people write “fanfics” that are AU (Alternate Universe) and have OOC (Out-Of-Character) characters… If you’re going to write that, you might as well try writing our own novel!
I’ve actually seen some of my favourite fanfiction authors develop and grow because of the reviewing and beta-ing they got fron the fanfiction community, and actually get the courage/experience to try writing original works. Which is good! (right?) But I do agree with Cynthia. Wading through all the bad fanfics to find the few gems is pure torture at times…
And of course, making money off fanfiction is a big no in my opinion. If something started off as fanfiction, it should remain as fanfiction. Although the plot may be an original one, if the characters are modelled after someone else’s, I would say that’s copyright infringement if you actually do publish it so…
I don’t read or write fan fiction. But I know people who do. I have a friend who is a moderator on a site. She told me that the unspoken rules of fan fiction is that you never sell it for profit. I originally spoke to her about the whole 50 Shades of Grey thing and that was the answer she gave me.
Going on from there, as a writer, if someone so blatantly ripped off my work and went so far as to ADMIT IT in multiples views (as James has no qualms about doing) I would be furious. It’s one thing as an author to have the suspicion that someone’s work is fan-fiction and another when they admit it to your face while they rack up more and more sales.
I liked Twilight okay. Meyer has often been on the record that her inspiration came from a dream. If that were me, I would be P.O.’d that someone took literally the thing that sprung from the most imaginative of all places and made bank on it.
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I clicked on this site by ancdiect, but I wanted to go ahead and leave some feedback since it’s a new site. I will not be back to this site because I don’t enjoy seeing crappy fan works, even if they’re posted so that people can make fun of them. A site devoted to fan-generated artwork is a good concept, but it should be a showcase for the best of the best.